How much?

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MarmiteMarty
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:44 pm

Post by MarmiteMarty » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:19 pm

I've seen a calculation to "fill up" an e-car. It's the price per kilowatt x the battery size. e.g. 56p x 35.5. This means a "full tank" is £19.88 and that'll get you approximately 100 miles.
Yet I saw an online review where the same distance, at 28p per kilowatt, only cost £7. Can anyone tell me where I've gone wrong, what I can't see or which of the two above is right?

Thanks. :)

zemdega
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Post by zemdega » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:39 pm

It depends on location and usage habits. I have mixed type of driving and my consumption is about 16-17 kwh on 100 km. I'm charging at home with kwh cost about 15 euro cents. Full "fill up" is about 30 kwh. So about 100 miles cost about 4 pounds. But public DC fast chargers can be from 0.5 to 1 euro per kwh, so it could be even 20 pounds per 100 miles. That's why I don't use them. At the moment with rising electricity cost I see Honde E or any other EV as second vehicle that you charge only at home. But that only my opinion :) I'm from Latvia btw.

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EEEE
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Post by EEEE » Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:28 pm

You'll never push 35.5kWH into an E, unless you drove it 20 miles after hitting 0% lol. Batteries are a complicated thing, not just a shape of known volume to be filled up with liquid like a petrol tank - those days are gone. I don't have detailed charging history on my home charger, but I don't think I've seen a charge go past 25kwh. I suspect 27 or 28kWH is the absolute max you could get into it at 0%. Some of the electric is 'lost', heating the battery and other losses, but they do not account for too much.

The easier way to figure it out (the cost) is work out the efficiency which is displayed on the dash. For me, short journeys result in maybe 2.5 to 3 miles per kilowatt hour (This is analogous to MPG number, higher is better), long journeys more like 4 to 5miles per kwh. Then simply divide your electricity unit cost by how many miles you get to give you cost per mile.

For example, I'm on Octopus Go tariff at home, I get 4 hours cheap electric at night, and it costs me 7.5p per kwh. In my worst case scenario (cold weather, very short journeys), I get 2.5miles per unit, costing me 7.5p a unit, so that's 3p a mile (not bad eh?). On the longer journeys it's around 2p/mile (used to be cheaper!).

If you can't charge up at home on a cheap tariff, then an electric car is probably not cost effective. Charging at a fast public charger is anywhere from 40p to 65p or more per kwh, pushing you upwards to between worst case 26p/mile and best case 8p/mile.

Even a normal home tariff (not time based) is about 40p/unit these days, so the cost per mile is comparable to petrol depending on the vehicle.

The 'fuel' savings do not exist anymore really. All the planets and stars must align to realise any savings to be had, otherwise, its comparable to petrol.

For me, I can charge at home (parking, plus i bought a 7kw charger at ~900quid), and I can get a cheap night rate due to having a smart electric meter which supports half hourly billing (hence the ability to be charged a cheaper night rate).

On Sunday I will need to charge publicly, at around 8 to 10 times the cost of charging at home, and be at the mercy of public charging. It will cost me 3quid to get there, but probably 20 to get back.

It is interesting to juggle the numbers in your head, but not a terribly exciting discussion to be had in person or on the internet lol.

PS - I bought the car because it was cool, and had no idea of the costs or anything when I bought it.
'21 e Advance - Charge Yellow - E1702RR alloys
'17 Civic Sport CVT
'00 Prelude 2.2VTi

nyx
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:28 am

Post by nyx » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:01 pm

EEEE wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:28 pm
You'll never push 35.5kWH into an E, unless you drove it 20 miles after hitting 0% lol. Batteries are a complicated thing, not just a shape of known volume to be filled up with liquid like a petrol tank - those days are gone. I don't have detailed charging history on my home charger, but I don't think I've seen a charge go past 25kwh. I suspect 27 or 28kWH is the absolute max you could get into it at 0%. Some of the electric is 'lost', heating the battery and other losses, but they do not account for too much.

https://ev-database.uk/car/1233/Honda-e ... e#charging has it as 28.5 kWh usable, but I have no idea what their source is.

5thcivic
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Post by 5thcivic » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:26 pm

Is this correct?

My E is around 3.5 miles/kwh and my October electricity wll be 34p per kwh (up from 28p now) so that will be around 9p per mile.

My Jazz EX is around 60 mpg, at £1.70 a litre, £7.73 a gallon, so that is around 13p/mile.

My old Civic was around 35 mpg so almost double that.

betonos
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Post by betonos » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:31 pm

I'm using the other metric of efficency, I mean energy usage / 100km. In my case, on longer distances, doing up to 100kph, in 25C weather, I could go maybe down to 15kWh/100km. Current energy price in Poland is around 0.17 EUR / kwh (charging at home) and for gasoline 1.37 eur/liter E95. At street charge points, the price goes up to 0,45 eur /kwh.

The economics are hard to calculate thou, because for example now the temperature is between 5 and 10C in Poland (really naughty for late summer, but this is the reality in this part of Europe ;)). Using heating set to 22C inside, on short distances (2-3km) I've seen usage of even 30kWh/100km (with sometimes at the very beginning of the trip showing even 99kWh/100km). If you turn on the energy flow view (I don't remember the exact button name for this view) on the main screen, it shows energy usage per current trip. The main dashboard energy meter shows average since you've last reset the trip meter.

So it's really difficult to say how much does the car cost - depending so much on temperatures, distance, speed...

I'm using solar panels to generate energy, so I could partially argue the cost of energy for me is 0eur/kwh (this is not true, as I've had to invest money to get those panels etc.).
But in my use case, even then, this car - given it's price compared to similar gasoline-based cars - does not make financial sense. Neither any other e-car would make sense for me. I won't do more than 10kkm/year, and probably closer to 5kkm/year with this car.

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mesa
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by mesa » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:50 pm

I did some quick comparisons last spring into the efficiency in autumn when I got my e and winter. Autumn driving is about 12kW/100km, a bit more or a bit less depending on how heavy my right foot is. Winter driving was more like 25kW/100km and the variation there was dependant on the temperature outside more than anything, I set the temperature inside to 16℃. I also learned that short journeys were more expensive as the car cooled down between trips. Winter also taught me to be gentler in accelerating as the traction control isn't completely up to the job.

I am pretty sure that charging is slower in winter due to the battery being cold and as some chargers charge by the minute that can affect costs as well.
Charge Yellow e Advance

Mailforkev
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Location: Ireland

Post by Mailforkev » Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:30 pm

@mesa, no idea how you're getting 12kWh/100km, you must have the world's lightest right foot! Even if I drive like a nun I only get into the 14s, think I'm averaging around 16 over the last 5,000 kms (3.9 mi/KWh).

I'm paying 7.9c per kWh on my home night rate, so even allowing for 10% wastage, that's under EUR 2.50 for a "full tank", roughly EUR 1.40 per 100km.

Petrol is currently 1.80 per litre here, diesel 1.90 so it's a massive saving.

Would be a little over EUR 12 for a full charge on a public charger here in Ireland (0.39c per kWh).

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EEEE
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Post by EEEE » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:59 am

I charged up last night at home from 26% to full (so a 74% charge) and it was 23.2kwh input , so that makes max 31kwh for a full charge from 0% (probably a tiny bit lest because that 23.2kwh includes battery heating which isn't needed in 1 continuous full charge. So as was quoted elsewhere 28.5kwh + a unit or 2 for heating/loss during charge is about the max you can put in when you hit 0%.
'21 e Advance - Charge Yellow - E1702RR alloys
'17 Civic Sport CVT
'00 Prelude 2.2VTi

betonos
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Post by betonos » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:38 am

I did some mixed driving today, about 50-60km with heating (outside 10-13C, inside 20C). 25% of the distance was city driving with lights etc, 75% was motorway with speeds 100-120 with very occassional 130kph. The average power usage after this trip was around 21kwh/100km.

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