Pre-conditioning and range?

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Verone
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Post by Verone » Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:29 pm

Hey guys,

I'll be taking delivery of my e in January (super excited) and was pondering a quick question.

It gets pretty cold here in Reykjavík so I'll be looking to use preconditioning to defrost and warm the car in the worst winter months. Wondering what your experience of it is with regards to preserving or costing range?

Simple scenario, I tend to leave home at 07:15 on weekday mornings, and I'm thinking of having a quick 15-30 minute preconditioning cycle before leaving to bring the battery up to temperature and defrost the car/heat the interior.

The car won't be plugged in and charging overnight at home, and I'm not really concerned about range since I'll be city driving and I have 6 chargers plus two CCS chargers within throwing distance of my apartment building.

Ironically, 30 minutes of preconditioning is actually longer than my commute to work, which is about 15 minutes of driving.

Just curious as to how people have found the preconditioning on the e, if it's useful, how much it affects battery usage and of course whether it's worth it, or just better to give the car a scrape if I happen to leave it outside?

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EEEE
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:33 am

Post by EEEE » Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:44 pm

The battery depletion depends on the temperature. I don't think i've seen below 0 degrees Celsius here in the UK at 7am. Generally between 3 and 6% for a preheat. More if it's very cold.

It's the best feature about the car truth be told. To have completely clear windscreen and windows, heated cabin, heated steering wheel and heated seats it's amazing. You don't even have to use it just in the morning. Anytime you are outside and can't wait to get out of the cold (day out or outdoor activity) just preheat via the phone app...
'21 e Advance - Charge Yellow - E1702RR alloys
'17 Civic Sport CVT
'00 Prelude 2.2VTi

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milligoon
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Post by milligoon » Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:44 am

Cabin conditioning makes no difference to my battery as I run it when plugged into the car, I generally use it on early shift in the winter for around 20 minutes before I leave for work at 5:30.

I am not convinced that it does do anything for the battery range etc, my cars battery predicted range seems very tied to outside temperature, I notice it jump dramatically when I drive through significant temperature changes which for some odd reason happens more than you'd think in a relatively short journey, the outside change would not effect the battery temperature that quickly
Lesser Spotted Tiny Blue Owl

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EEEE
Posts: 217
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Post by EEEE » Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:04 am

milligoon wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:44 am
Cabin conditioning makes no difference to my battery as I run it when plugged into the car, I generally use it on early shift in the winter for around 20 minutes before I leave for work at 5:30.

I am not convinced that it does do anything for the battery range etc, my cars battery predicted range seems very tied to outside temperature, I notice it jump dramatically when I drive through significant temperature changes which for some odd reason happens more than you'd think in a relatively short journey, the outside change would not effect the battery temperature that quickly
I also notice this. Preheating the cabin (from battery or mains 7kw) does not seem to heat the battery. I can tell this because the real time efficiency meter may show 4m/kwh+ for the first few miles of my journey, but the 'trip average' since starting charge is way less than 3. We all know that the real time meter does not include battery heating energy.

I have never used the scheduled heating, just adhoc from the app or fob.
'21 e Advance - Charge Yellow - E1702RR alloys
'17 Civic Sport CVT
'00 Prelude 2.2VTi

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keithr
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Location: Dorset, UK

Post by keithr » Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:43 pm

Charging the battery just before your journey will turn the battery pack heater on (if it's needed). See the thread Cold weather observations. In that thread (5th reply) I wrote:

I would assume that it was all due to a cold battery - the battery heater can suck quite a lot of power. In the recent cold weather I have been charging my car for 10 - 20 minutes before each journey, so that it will heat up the battery using power from the charge point rather than from the battery. I've only been driving short trips around town (no more than 3 miles from home) but I've been getting over 4 miles/kWh (I went shopping today, at 3°C, and got an average of 4.1miles/kWh). Without the short charge before driving I was getting around 2miles/kWh, or about 1.2 if I used the heater. In this cold weather it seems to charge the car at about two thirds the normal (warmer weather) rate, implying it uses an average of about 2.2kW for battery heating while charging for 20 minutes in cold weather.

It's not just the Honda e. I watched a YouTube video a short while ago where somebody was claiming to only be getting a range of about 75km (46 miles!) from a VW ID.3, with its 58kWh battery pack. It also has a battery heater, and the owner was also preheating the car before driving (not plugged in, at least not at his place of work for the homeward journey), and had the climate control set to 24°C. It is what it is in very cold weather, but charging and preheating before driving should improve the economy.


For more details about battery heating see my reply in the thread Average energy usage during cold weather.

MaXPainT
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Post by MaXPainT » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:56 pm

From my personal experience if you are charging your car with a granny charger running preconditioning before your departure might steal a couple of % of your charge. I have seen 98% charge on my car with preheating on and the car being charging all working day.

I was under the impression that preheating also preheats the battery. But it doesn't look like it since when you start driving you can see a much higher consumption regardless if the car was preheated or not.

In any case, I would always pick preheating and charging the car more often over getting into a stone cold car. There is simply something more humane about it :)

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keithr
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Post by keithr » Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:37 pm

MaXPainT wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:56 pm
From my personal experience if you are charging your car with a granny charger running preconditioning before your departure might steal a couple of % of your charge. I have seen 98% charge on my car with preheating on and the car being charging all working day.
Can the "granny charger" supply enough power to preheat the car interior and heat the battery pack, especially if it's charging the battery pack as well? I always use my home charge point (up to about 7.3kW).
I was under the impression that preheating also preheats the battery. But it doesn't look like it since when you start driving you can see a much higher consumption regardless if the car was preheated or not.
According to the table below, it should heat the battery pack if it's plugged in (but if interior preheat is not turned on, then it will only heat the battery pack while it is charging the battery pack - so if it reaches 100% SOC, or the set maximum SOC, then it will stop both charging and heating the battery pack).

batteryHC.jpg


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londiniumperson
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Post by londiniumperson » Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:15 pm

keithr wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:37 pm
Can the "granny charger" supply enough power to preheat the car interior and heat the battery pack, especially if it's charging the battery pack as well? I always use my home charge point (up to about 7.3kW).
The battery will slowly be depleted if using a "granny charger" whilst pre-heat is active, simply because the granny only outputs about 2kW and the interior heater alone can draw up to 3kW with the steering wheel & seats will drawing an additional 100W or so.
The car interior & battery pre-heat will be drawing power from the battery and not directly from any attached charger.
2022 Advance in Crystal Black Pearl on 17's - 08/2022-Current
2015 VW Tiguan (Pure White) - 04/2018-Current
2001 Toyota MR2 (Liquid Silver) - 06/2022-Current
1991 Honda Beat PP1 (Festival Red) - 11/2022-Current

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