Highest mileage

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Dorothee
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Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:30 pm

Post by Dorothee »

Just wondering what the highest mileage is and if your range has suffered. Saw one for sale with 65K kms and couldn’t help thinking no way I’d buy one with such ‘high’ mileage. To me, somehow 65K seems perfectly fine for an ICE but way too high for the e. In my mind I’ve convinced myself that the HV battery will be dead after 1000 charge cycles or 150K kms (100ish K miles).

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FDAD
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Post by FDAD »

Dorothee wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:27 pm In my mind I’ve convinced myself that the HV battery will be dead after 1000 charge cycles or 150K kms (100ish K miles).
How did you came up to that conclusion?
Honda E advance [Modern Steel Metallic] 8-) [DELIVERED JULY 2020] - 85 000Kms + ✌️🎂
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Verone
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Post by Verone »

I've just crossed 7100km, so I think I've got a ways to go :lol:
Icelandic Advance Limited Edition in Premium Crystal Red on 17" rims
Registered May 2023
Home Type 2 Charging & Free Work Type 2 Charging! Woo!
ODO - 9350km
Dorothee
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Post by Dorothee »

A Li-ion typically has a life expectancy of 1000 charge cycles when always charged to 100%.
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Verone
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Post by Verone »

Dorothee wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:22 pm A Li-ion typically has a life expectancy of 1000 charge cycles when always charged to 100%.
Thankfully the buffer that the e's BMS calculates means that the battery is only ever using 80% of its total battery capacity when charging (28.5kWh usable from 35.5kWh total).

Additionally, that figure of 1000 charge cycles is more than likely related to CCS charging. With the vast majority of owners probably type 2 or granny charging at home for the best part, the actual lifespan of the batter is more than likely substantially longer.

There's way too many people panicking about the life cycles of Li-Ion battery packs when there are countless 10+ year old EVs still on the road that are doing perfectly fine and are still maintaining a perfectly usable battery capacity.
Icelandic Advance Limited Edition in Premium Crystal Red on 17" rims
Registered May 2023
Home Type 2 Charging & Free Work Type 2 Charging! Woo!
ODO - 9350km
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hondaeboy
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Post by hondaeboy »

Dorothee wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:27 pm In my mind I’ve convinced myself that the HV battery will be dead after 1000 charge cycles or 150K kms (100ish K miles).
I dare you to f*ck up the battery within the warranty! :D You need to mess it up to the point of end-of-life before the battery is 8 years old or before you've driven 160.000 km. You will not likely be able to.

*paste from earlier post*

For this I tried to base the calculations on research done by BMZ in Germany. They did some research a while back to find out the amount of degradation caused by charging and discharging. They looked at any combination of discharging to 0, 10, or 20% and charging to 70, 80, 90, or 100%. The research then determined how many full cycles of the full battery capacity it would take before the battery reached its "End of Life" (EoL) - 70% of the battery's original capacity. The research clearly showed that the battery doesn't like being (too) full, but also not being (too) empty.

Just to clarify, one cycle is always the full battery's worth of capacity. Let's say you always charge the battery from 20 to 70% (so only using 50% of the battery), then it takes two full charges, but that would still be considered one cycle (2 charges x 50% = 100% = 1 full cycle).

These were all the tested scenarios and the determined number of cycles til EoL:
A. 0-100% --> 500 cycles
B. 0-90% ---> 1500 cycles
C. 0-80% ---> 3000 cycles
D. 0-70% ---> 5000 cycles
E. 10-100% -> 500 cycles
F. 10-90% --> 1500 cycles
G. 10-80% --> 3000 cycles
H. 10-70% --> 5500 cycles
I. 20-100% -> 1000 cycles
J. 20-90% --> 2000 cycles
K. 20-80% --> 3500 cycles
L. 20-70% --> 6000 cycles

As you can see, not charging and discharging fully gives you a lot more cycles.

But the state of charge (SoC) shown in the car is also not the same as the actual battery's SoC. This is because of two protections Honda built in.

The most important protection Honda built in is the hard reserve of 90%. This means that the car will never use more than the bottom 90% of the battery. This is a hard limit. On top of that, there's a soft limit in the sense that only the TOP 90% of the BOTTOM 90% will be counted towards the range shown on your car's dashboard.

To make make sense of the research numbers, we will have to convert these percentages to the SoC percentages shown on your dashboard. We can 'translate' these research SoC's to the Honda SoC's shown in your car by be using the formula: Honda-SoC = (SoC - 9%) / 81%.

We can now ignore all scenarios that charge to over 100%, because Honda does not allow for that to happen. That means scenarios A, E, and I are out. I'm also assuming no one will be running the battery below 0%, which means we can ignore scenarios B, C, and D as well.

To calculate how much juice we can squeeze out of the battery over the course of its life, we need to multiply the determined cycles with the full battery capacity (35.5 kWh) and divide it by the average efficiency (0.168 kWh/km):

F. 1%-100% --> 1500 cycles x 35.5 / 0.168 = 300k+ km
G. 1%-88% --> 3000 cycles x 35.5 / 0.168 = 600k+ km
H. 1%-75% --> 5500 cycles x 35.5 / 0.168 = 1M+ km

J. 14%-100% --> 2000 cycles x 35.5 / 0.168 = 400k+ km
K. 14%-88% --> 3500 cycles x 35.5 / 0.168 = 700k+ km
L. 14%-75% --> 6000 cycles x 35.5 / 0.168 = 1.25M+ km

Surprisingly, it appears charging to 80% might actually not do much to help the battery, at least not as a single measure on its own. And going full YOLO also doesn't seem to really hurt the battery too much in practical terms.

Warrenty is given for 160.000 km or 8 years. If you always charge when the icon pops up at 15% and charge to 80% only, the battery will probably last you about a million kilometers. I'm not sure the car itself will even last that long.

But even if you are the worst charging psychopath you will most likely still be able to easily get at least a quarter of a million kilometers out of the battery. And, mind you, that would require you to consciously and deliberately and consistently charge from 0% to 100%, always and without exception.

That's why I think Honda has no problems with recommending to always fully charge before driving, because they know on average even a careless person will NEVER fully charge AND deplete the battery CONSTANTLY.

My conclusion is that the battery will be just fine and probably outlast your ownership, no matter what you do.
2021 Honda e Advance on 16" RC30 wheels with Goodyear 195/55 & 205/55 tyres.
Wrapped in Red metallic with full black and cinnamon leather interior.
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Reuben80
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Post by Reuben80 »

I am at 61500km after 3 years and I do not notice any degradation. I drive it every day but recently when I did not drive it for 2 days it kept the same percentage, so that is good sign.
I keep the charge roughly between 35% and 65% when I can afford it.
ilBaku
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Post by ilBaku »

The warranty is for 160.000 km. This means that a battery under normal conditions lasts at least twice as long. And indeed from Tesla's 2022 reports it turns out that their batteries (largely NCM like those of Honda) lose an average of 12% of capacity after 320.000.
They are larger batteries than Honda's, but it still makes it clear that their useful life lasts at least as long as a well-maintained combustion engine. And certainly to keep a petrol engine working beyond 200,000 km you have to spend a lot of money on oil changes, filters, timing belts, etc...
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