e test drives

[rickwookie]

Nice review Keith.

Agreed! Thanks Keith!

Someone here said about the paddles seeming reversed - pull on the minus one for more braking, plus for less. Agreed it’s the wrong way round, but you’d son adjust.

Assuming the minus paddle is on the left, wouldn't this feel more like when I shift down on my DSG using the left paddle and therefore get lots of engine braking when I lift off? I think it would be odd if it was the other way around

[londiniumperson]

@keithr
Thanks for the review, you noted very similar observations that I had, however I can't realistically make any comparison to the LEAF or another EV as not only do I not own a LEAF, I don't currently own an EV of any kind, though I've driven a few EV's albeit for a very short drive each time.

As I got to the end of your post after your concerns over the efficiency, I was surprised to hear that you're intending to trade in your LEAF for the Honda. My view is that the GOM is not showing the fully capacity because it must be the only EV that holds back 20% of the declared battery capacity compared to the 5-10% others EVs do, so hopefully it will have a higher range than it is indicating after it's due software update.

It will great to hear an update after your Tuesday dealer visit.

Please could you tell us which model you're intending to purchase because it's not clear from your comment on the 16" wheel version.

[londiniumperson]

Nice review Keith.

Agreed! Thanks Keith!

Someone here said about the paddles seeming reversed - pull on the minus one for more braking, plus for less. Agreed it’s the wrong way round, but you’d son adjust.

Assuming the minus paddle is on the left, wouldn't this feel more like when I shift down on my DSG using the left paddle and therefore get lots of engine braking when I lift off? I think it would be odd if it was the other way around

@Joolsdc
It was me that said that the paddles seeming reversed, here you go, see the page from the manual:

[Joolsdc]

I was agreeing with you Lond

[keithr]

As I got to the end of your post after your concerns over the efficiency, I was surprised to hear that you're intending to trade in your LEAF for the Honda.

Yes, it may not be the most sensible thing to do, but life is short and I want to enjoy it while I can (plus I no longer have a wife who would say I can't waste my/our money on it!). Even with a 100 miles range (in summer) that is still adequate for me.

My view is that the GOM is not showing the fully capacity because it must be the only EV that holds back 20% of the declared battery capacity compared to the 5-10% others EVs do, so hopefully it will have a higher range than it is indicating after it's due software update.

Unfortunately the GOM is showing the usable range, and you can't use more than the usable capacity. But even with the lower usable capacity, it is still surprising how inefficent it is. With my Nissan LEAF I'm getting 25 - 40% more miles for the same amount of battery capacity as the Honda e. That's a big difference.

That's the second mention I've read of a possible software update, but I've not read anything about an update. Do you have any more information about that? I know the VW ID3 will get a software update when they have sorted out their software, but I've not heard of anything similar for the Honda e.

Please could you tell us which model you're intending to purchase because it's not clear from your comment on the 16" wheel version.

I have a Honda e Advance on order, in white, and I've selected the 16" wheels.

[Joolsdc]

I have written it elsewhere, but I think the e is a heart over head purchase.
You are buying a small, luxury item which l’m less sure can be justified on logic. There far cheaper, bigger, longer range EV on the market. But at the price point - I think only the Mini E is similar. Reasonable performance. Fun to drive. Well made. Good interior.
I thinks it’s like choosing a small sports car.
So I appreciate Keithr comments. I think it’s the car for me and my vehicle needs.
Having said that, there are still many questions for Honda to answer:
- will updates be free or chargeable?
- what is the software OS and how long will it be maintained? (I had a Mini JCW Mk2 that they stopped updating the screen s/w
- will they sort out the rapid charge issue?
- 28.5kWh useable battery compared to the quoted 35.5kWh
- the 8 year 70% battery performance - what is it based on. 28 or 35kWh? Very easy to a hit if it’s the former
- will Honda add more apps or allow 3rd party apps. Or do we go thru AppleCarPlay?
- will Japanese companies do performance or tuning kits?
- will there be an R version on the future?
- how will the Keba offered Honda home charger integrate with my current Myenergi Zappi charger?

Anyway I’m still smitten and progressing my order

[londiniumperson]

As I got to the end of your post after your concerns over the efficiency, I was surprised to hear that you're intending to trade in your LEAF for the Honda.

Yes, it may not be the most sensible thing to do, but life is short and I want to enjoy it while I can (plus I no longer have a wife who would say I can't waste my/our money on it!). Even with a 100 miles range (in summer) that is still adequate for me.

My view is that the GOM is not showing the fully capacity because it must be the only EV that holds back 20% of the declared battery capacity compared to the 5-10% others EVs do, so hopefully it will have a higher range than it is indicating after it's due software update.

Unfortunately the GOM is showing the usable range, and you can't use more than the usable capacity. But even with the lower usable capacity, it is still surprising how inefficent it is. With my Nissan LEAF I'm getting 25 - 40% more miles for the same amount of battery capacity as the Honda e. That's a big difference.

That's the second mention I've read of a possible software update, but I've not read anything about an update. Do you have any more information about that? I know the VW ID3 will get a software update when they sorted out their software, but I've not heard of anything similar for the Honda e.

Please could you tell us which model you're intending to purchase because it's not clear from your comment on the 16" wheel version.

I have a Honda e Advance on order, in white, and I've selected the 16" wheels.

@keithr, thanks for your responses.
I can fully appreciate your reasoning to go ahead the Honda in place of the Leaf, for most people buying any brand new car is not usually the best financial decision; we all have are our reason/priorities, for me this will be my first brand new car and twice the amount that I have ever spent on a car however after 36 yrs of driving old used cars I now in a position to afford a more expensive one. A year ago I was seriously considering a used Porsche Cayman, but I just find the Honda so intriguing & really want one.

Like you 100 miles is adequate, I have a 50 mile round trip commute, so even after a couple of years and a slightly reduced battery capacity on a cold dark day I'll easily be able to do a round trip on a full charge

As for the software update, I was told by the salesman (but as I've posted elsewhere, I'm dubious about anything that he says) this was one of the reasons for the delivery delay. My observations on the Infotainment display is that it is running version 8.1.0 which is Android Oreo (launched Aug 2017), so I would have expected an updated to a newer version, also I managed to enter developer mode very easily so this might also be locked down, finally I'm wondering if the battery management system will be updated to improve efficiency & the amount of useable battery to nearer 90-95% like other EVs. Tesla recently pushed out an update on the M3 which increased the charge rate & range. This is all supposition, however I guess that I'm subconsciously trying to convince myself to buy the car.

Like you I have a Honda e Advance on order, however in black with 17" wheels, I like the look, particularly with the black paint & I'm a sucker for large alloys.

[londiniumperson]

I have written it elsewhere, but I think the e is a heart over head purchase.
You are buying a small, luxury item which l’m less sure can be justified on logic. There far cheaper, bigger, longer range EV on the market. But at the price point - I think only the Mini E is similar. Reasonable performance. Fun to drive. Well made. Good interior.
I thinks it’s like choosing a small sports car.
So I appreciate Keithr comments. I think it’s the car for me and my vehicle needs.
Having said that, there are still many questions for Honda to answer:
...
- 28.5kWh useable battery compared to the quoted 35.5kWh
- the 8 year 70% battery performance - what is it based on. 28 or 35kWh? Very easy to a hit if it’s the former
....
Anyway I’m still smitten and progressing my order

@Joolsdc
I agree with you first comment, however any brand new car purchase is really a luxury that is driven by the heart, no one needs to buy a brand new car, as a used car is significantly cheaper at a p/mile when taking everything into account. For example any low mileage 3yr old used car will be significantly cheaper at the cost/mile and just as reliable as it's brand new equivalent, certainly for the next 3 years.

As with any new to market car, there are a lot of unknowns, so either you go in naively anyway and hope for the best or look at the potential issues and make a decision based on the level of risk that you are willing to accept, only you the purchaser can make that call because it depends on your own circumstances.

As for the warranty on the 8 year/70% battery, it might be based on the battery health report, though how any owner can confirm the information supplied by Honda is anyone's guess. Anyway it will only matter after 5-10yrs or even more & even then probably only in exceptional circumstances.
Say they use 35kWh as the baseline with 28.5kWh useable from day 1 of ownership, then after a period of time that 35.5 kWh is reduced by 70% to 24.8kWh, it is quite possible that the useable amount won't also drop by 75% from 28.5kWh to 19.9kWh for a number of reasons, firstly there was 20% already held back & secondly by this time (many years later) the battery management software might be able to make more efficient use of the battery. Therefore take a hypothetical range of 100 miles (for ease of calculation) at new, then if would be fair to say that once this is down to 70 miles (ignore driving style) then the warranty could be invoked, however there was the addition energy artificially held back & the potential software enhancement, which is likely to mean that you'll probably still have a useable range of 90 miles. So in short, if you buy it knowing it has a range of 100 miles and also knowing that not all of the battery is available & you can still drive it 90 miles even with actual 30% battery degradation, I doubt that Honda or any court in any country would side with you on a battery claim because the car still has a 90% range compared to new.

[londiniumperson]

...
Having said that, there are still many questions for Honda to answer:
- will updates be free or chargeable?
- what is the software OS and how long will it be maintained? (I had a Mini JCW Mk2 that they stopped updating the screen s/w
- will they sort out the rapid charge issue?
...
- will Honda add more apps or allow 3rd party apps. Or do we go thru AppleCarPlay?
....

Anyway I’m still smitten and progressing my order

As for software updates, some will be free (those that are safety related) & some might be chargeable, it will depend what the update is, whether Honda Worldwide/UK deem it free or whether the dealer decide to suck up the cost as a PR, goodwill gesture nobody knows, go see the rants on FB about the MG ZS EV 'Comfort upgrade' debacle, MG UK say it's chargeable however dealers are offering it at various costs or free in some instances.

As for the software OS, I had a dig on my test drive & it is currently Android 8.1.0 for the infotainment system running on a bespoke/proprietary underlying system. Obviously you don't want your driving & safety systems running on the same OS/program as the infotainment system, especially if that OS is Android!
The car will be running a seperate control system with non-blocking data transfer, you don't really want your Collision Mitigation Braking System software going slow just as someone does an emergency stop in front of you do you?

What rapid charge issue, the only thing that I am aware of is that repeated rapid charging causes the battery management system to instigate a reduction in charge after around 60% which is the whole point of the BMS, without this the battery could be irretrievably damaged. It is consistent & managed unlike the Leaf rapidgate issue.

As for 3rd party apps, well there's a Honda app store which is where you'll find apps (not sure what these will be, other then the aquarium because I accidently removed it on the demo car) and as I have already mentioned I have enabled developer mode on the Honda, so in theory anything could be sideloaded if this is still available on customer cars at delivery. There are a lot of clever people out there & there is bound to become a time when a 'hack' is found to enable user app uploads.

[londiniumperson]

...
Having said that, there are still many questions for Honda to answer:
...
- will Japanese companies do performance or tuning kits?
- will there be an R version on the future?
...

Tuning kits are bound to happen in Japan, though from experience of Japanese modifications (not just cars), this will be extremely expensive once imported into the UK, also I suspect that bodywork additions will be quick to the market in Japan but again extortionately priced once delivered into the UK & that will be if you can actually obtain any
I'd love an R version but I think this might end up being a JDM only car & totally overpriced, the Honda e is bad enough.