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Jeffers
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Post by Jeffers » Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:56 am

Reuben80 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:31 am
Self is the car not the battery
Please read the reply above

Perhaps I should clarify. A ‘self charging’ car as Toyota calls it, should be called a ‘slower discharging’ car, as petrol is consumed at a slower rate than a non hybrid.
The single raindrop never feels responsible for the flood

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keithr
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Post by keithr » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:54 pm

I look at it like this. To charge a battery you need to connect it to a supply of DC electricity, either from an AC charger in the car or from an external (rapid) charger, both of which require the user to plug a cable into the car that gets its electrical power from a mains power supply (or perhaps from a large solar power charged battery). This is manual charging.

Alternatively, you can get the electrical supply from a petrol powered generator, such as is used in the BMW i3 with the range extender, or with a portable petrol powered generator (as in that video earlier in this thread!). So the Toyota hybrid is really a combination of a petrol powered car and and a BEV with a petrol powered range extender and no plug-in option to charge. It is self charging beccause there is no option to manually charge (as you can with a PHEV hybrid), so it has to charge itself.

Really it's much simpler to just use the terms hybrid, plug-in hybrid (PHEV) or electric (BEV). Toyota have just muddied the waters by calling them something different. I suspect they did it to tap into the laziness of people, by making people think that it is less effort to use a self charging car than one you have to plug in manually. Of course the owners can waste much more time and effort driving to a petrol station and plugging in a hose than it takes to just plug in a cable at home. And they're ignoring the differences in running costs and exhaust emissions. But that's marketing for you.

Trykpaa
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Post by Trykpaa » Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:41 pm

Jeffers wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:56 am
Perhaps I should clarify. A ‘self charging’ car as Toyota calls it, should be called a ‘slower discharging’ car
Why bother? And why on a Honda E forum?

Its a stretch marketing wise from Toyota, but you obviously know what they mean. And apparently you are not a fan, so just don't buy one.

Everybody are creative in the marketing department. There are much worse scams than this from Toyota out there.
Volkswagen group had their now famous 'clean diesel'. Tesla sell 'full self driving' add-ons to believers despite the technology won't be ready before said cars are looong gone.
Every second new car seem to be a 'sporty' SUV despite even some of the sportiest of SUVs (e.g.Porsche) fail the same moose test which caused such a stirr when the boxy MB A-class failed in the 90s.

I am sure Hondas Earth Dream engines aren't actually dreaming. Mine seems rather dead when car is off. :D

Jeffers
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Post by Jeffers » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:41 am

Trykpaa wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:41 pm
Why bother? And why on a Honda E forum?

Its a stretch marketing wise from Toyota, but you obviously know what they mean. And apparently you are not a fan, so just don't buy one.
Why not? What does it matter that I disagree with what had been said and wrote something to counter it? This is the internet, a place where discussions go on way too long about subjects that really don’t matter. This is a prime example.

I’m on a Honda e forum where it was brought up, it’d be odd to reply to comments from here elsewhere. Also, I didn’t bring it up.

I can guess what Toyota are trying to say, but it takes some mental gymnastics to get there. It just nonsense that I wish people didn’t have to try and excuse because they like the underlying product. Like you say, I’m clearly not going to buy one.
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rickwookie
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Post by rickwookie » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:56 pm

Reuben80 wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:04 am
you will do 65% of your trip on EV mode
...100% powered from Petrol.

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rickwookie
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Post by rickwookie » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:02 pm

Reuben80 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:15 pm
I managed to do 2700km on pure EV mode
No, you did precisely 0 km on "pure EV mode" since non-plugin hybrids don't have any such mode, they just have a mode where you can drive using the energy that was supplied by the combustion engine a short while earlier.

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Reuben80
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Post by Reuben80 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:40 pm

Don't make me laugh rickwookie. I drive a Hybrid from 2012 and you are going to tell me that I did not do the 2700km in EV. I did not switch to EV mode, I just let the car go into EV mode as all non plug in Hybrids do. Fuel was not flowing, otherwise I did not pay just 170eur petrol for 4700km.
The EV button, maybe you don't know why it is there, is not to put you in EV mode but to increase the motor power upper limit you have before the engine kicks in. I bet you did not know this.

"...100% powered from Petrol." - I don't care how the car self charged the thing is that I did not stop for charging.

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rickwookie
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Post by rickwookie » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:57 pm

Reuben80 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:40 pm
Don't make me laugh rickwookie. I drive a Hybrid from 2012 and you are going to tell me that I did not do the 2700km in EV.
Yes.
Reuben80 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:40 pm
I did not switch to EV mode, I just let the car go into EV mode as all non plug in Hybrids do. Fuel was not flowing, otherwise I did not pay just 170eur petrol for 4700km.
The EV button, maybe you don't know why it is there, is not to put you in EV mode but to increase the motor power upper limit you have before the engine kicks in. I bet you did not know this.
I did not know this. Nor do I know what you're on about here tbh.
Reuben80 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:40 pm
"...100% powered from Petrol." - I don't care how the car self charged the thing is that I did not stop for charging.
I do care, and my priority is to stop burning stuff, even if that means I have to stop visiting my favourite petrol stations. ;)

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Reuben80
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Post by Reuben80 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:37 pm

I don't want to waste anymore time with you rickwookie. If you cannot keep up with me it is not my problem.

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keithr
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Post by keithr » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:19 pm

Reuben80 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:37 pm
I don't want to waste anymore time with you rickwookie. If you cannot keep up with me it is not my problem.
Nevertheless, I agree with rickwookie (and I did understand what you meant by your description of the EV button). :) All of the energy that goes into the battery pack comes from the petrol engine, so all of the miles traveled comes from burning petrol (and producing air pollution in the process). Even in EV mode, the energy that you're using was produced by the petrol engine.

All the EV mode does is stop the car emmitting exhaust pollution for a while. Granted it gives better fuel consumption, and therefore lower exhaust pollution per mile on average, than a simiarly sized and performing petrol powered only car, which is good, but it's still a petrol burning, air polluting vehicle. Just because "fuel was not flowing" doesn't matter. If coal was burnt to produce electricity overnight, and that electricity was used to pump water up to a reservoir (effectively a battery) and when you charge your car from the mains during the day it uses electricty from a hydro-generator using water released from that reservoir, although that is clean generation the energy still originally came from burning the coal - which is not a clean source. Lots of air pollution from burning the coal took place during the night. Simlarly although you're driving in EV mode it's not clean because the energy originally came from burning petrol in your car's engine, which occurred earlier, and caused air pollution earlier.

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