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bogga
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Post by bogga » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:04 pm

..and to continue on that theme a, PHEV has the potential for 'short' jouneys to be emission free - at the location of use*

*depending on full battery capacity, driving options etc. etc...

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keithr
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Post by keithr » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:05 pm

bogga wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:04 pm
..and to continue on that theme a, PHEV has the potential for 'short' jouneys to be emission free - at the location of use*
Yes, a PHEV can operate like a short range BEV (even shorter range than the Honda e!), so that is better than a non-pluginable hybrid. If you only did short journeys you could potentially never need to burn petrol in a PHEV, but if you're doing that then it makes more sense to me to just buy a BEV (unless the PHEV is significantly cheaper and you can live with the very short range). The BEV is likely to give you better performance as well as more range than a PHEV in EV mode.

(Or does using a PHEV in EV mode only mean that the 12V battery never gets charged?)

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Reuben80
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Post by Reuben80 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:25 pm

The argument was if Hybrid can charge themselves without being plugged in, not what kind of energy makes them charge. Charged by electricity, charged by petrol , charged by diesel, the word is still CHARGED.

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keithr
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Post by keithr » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:27 am

Reuben80 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:25 pm
The argument was if Hybrid can charge themselves without being plugged in, not what kind of energy makes them charge.
I thought the discussion (not argument!) was about this:
rickwookie wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:13 pm
Reuben80 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:03 pm
The battery will charge while driving. What is wrong about it?
Hmm, let me think... maybe it's something to do with having to burn petrol in the internal combustion engine onboard the vehicle in order for the vehicle to be able to "self-charge"?
You asked what was wrong with the Toyota's "self-charging" and the answer is that it burns petrol in order to generate the power to charge the battery pack.

Toyota's marketing catchphrase "self-charging" might fool some people into believing that the car charges itself in a clean way (such as by regenerative braking) when in fact all of the charge energy comes from burning petrol in the engine. That's what's wrong with it. It is potentially deceiving people into thinking it's a clean solution and more convenient than having to plug in a BEV or PHEV, whereas the reality is that because it is self-charging and not using electricity from potentially clean and renewable sources, it is still an air polluting vehicle, and we need to be moving away from using such vehicles. They make it sound as though self-charging is good, whereas it actually means it's still an air polluting vehicle, which is bad.

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Reuben80
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Post by Reuben80 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:40 am

keithr wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:27 am
Reuben80 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:25 pm
The argument was if Hybrid can charge themselves without being plugged in, not what kind of energy makes them charge.
I thought the discussion (not argument!) was about this:
rickwookie wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:13 pm
Reuben80 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:03 pm
The battery will charge while driving. What is wrong about it?
Hmm, let me think... maybe it's something to do with having to burn petrol in the internal combustion engine onboard the vehicle in order for the vehicle to be able to "self-charge"?
You asked what was wrong with the Toyota's "self-charging" and the answer is that it burns petrol in order to generate the power to charge the battery pack.

Toyota's marketing catchphrase "self-charging" might fool some people into believing that the car charges itself in a clean way (such as by regenerative braking) when in fact all of the charge energy comes from burning petrol in the engine. That's what's wrong with it. It is potentially deceiving people into thinking it's a clean solution and more convenient than having to plug in a BEV or PHEV, whereas the reality is that because it is self-charging and not using electricity from potentially clean and renewable sources, it is still an air polluting vehicle, and we need to be moving away from using such vehicles. They make it sound as though self-charging is good, whereas it actually means it's still an air polluting vehicle, which is bad.
That is how BEV owners understand it, it seems. Non EV owners understand that you need to plug it in since you have a battery inside. They give up to buy a car just because they need to plug it in because they do not have where to charge it or it takes time etc. Nobody cares if it is good for the environment or not. Only BEV owners care about the environment and got angry with Toyota because they are promoting non plug in vehicles.
Me for example I don't think that I am going to save the planet, I bought a HEV in 2012 because it is cheaper to run than an ICE car, automatic, quieter, smoother and modern. Now I will buy a BEV because it is even cheaper than HEV to run and is cooler for me.

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keithr
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Post by keithr » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:12 pm

Reuben80 wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:40 am
That is how BEV owners understand it, it seems. Non EV owners understand that you need to plug it in since you have a battery inside. They give up to buy a car just because they need to plug it in because they do not have where to charge it or it takes time etc.
You're probably right. Most of us here are probably more enthusiastic about electric vehicles. More people are becoming interested though, because they're realising that BEVs are cheaper to run, they know that ICE vehicles are going to be banned eventually, and because of all the talk about needing to clean up our air (people were saying that the coronavirus lockdown measures were cleaning up the air and so more people would want to keep it that way - I suspect that it won't make as much difference as the promise of saving money!).

Not having somewhere to charge is a problem for a lot of people though. My brother has been interested in BEVs but he does not have off-street parking so he can't charge it at home, so charging a BEV then becomes a lot of hassle. Being able to charge at home is so convenient. Unfortunately the less wealthy people in society don't have it as easy as those of us who are more wealthy.

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milligoon
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Post by milligoon » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:41 pm

Given that in the UK and Europe ICE powered vehicles are due to end as the sale of new vehicles in around 15 years or so. (Not ban the use of existing vehicles as it stands at the moment) it will be interesting to see the proliferation of none ice vehicles over the coming years, I for one would like to see HFCPHEV, ie a bit bigger battery fitted to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles that can be plugged in, it's a no brainer to me.
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dVb9
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Post by dVb9 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:11 am

Robert Llewellyn has been one of the most vocal critics of the "self-charging hybrid" line, but listening to his comments within the first minute of this 10-year old episode of Carpool, I can't help wondering whether Toyota actually got the idea from him in the first place...


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Reuben80
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Post by Reuben80 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:27 am

dVb9 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:11 am
Robert Llewellyn has been one of the most vocal critics of the "self-charging hybrid" line, but listening to his comments within the first minute of this 10-year old episode of Carpool, I can't help wondering whether Toyota actually got the idea from him in the first place...

Great find. It is because of him that all this hate by BEV owners started. If he did not say anything in his episodes no one would have cared about this thing. People are so influenced by media and don't use their own mind to think. Thank God this finally proves what I have been saying coming out from the same mouth that started this misunderstanding and hype.

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milligoon
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Post by milligoon » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:00 am

I think Toyota deliberately play on it, the more people post on social media against Toyota's use of this phrase the more advertising they get for free, they've been quietly developing electric cars since 2017, people seem to miss the fact you'll be able to pre order the Lexus UX 300e soon.

I don't know why people get so steamed up about it myself?

Also ask yourselves why is a more complicated hybrid cheaper than a simple bev?
Lesser Spotted Tiny Blue Owl

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