Polestar: Being transparent about sustainability

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MattHero
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Post by MattHero » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:11 am

https://www.polestar.com/uk/electric-su ... nsparency/

Not read the full report, only the summary, but this is really interesting, especially where Polestar have established the carbon footprint break-even points for the P2 vs Volvo XC40 (Global power mix: 112,000 km, European power mix: 78,000 km, Wind power: 50,000 km) taking into account the full production process as well as ongoing mileage.
Advance Charge Yellow on 16s.

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ChesterUK
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Location: Cambridgeshire

Post by ChesterUK » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 am

Thanks @MattHero for linking to that. I've been increasingly thinking about manufacturing and logistics with 'green' products, and if such products are genuinely making a difference. I haven't read the full report, but it's clear to see that we still have a long way to go in these areas before human transportation requirements stop having a dramatic negative impact on the planet, especially when considering everything that's involved. At least steps are being made, and I'm glad that this data is being made public.

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Mr_Helge
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by Mr_Helge » Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:42 am

Insideevs has another take on that. Break-even could be as low as 25,000km (16,000 miles)

https://insideevs.com/news/458458/legac ... -debunked/

ZoeDave
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Post by ZoeDave » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:41 pm

This is definitely a complex topic, and the results of any analysis tend to depend on the frame of reference used. I have a few points that might not be included in the articles listed in favour of all but the most obnoxiously large EVs:

1. Particulate emissions will definitely be lower in areas where people live and work - I've seen some arguments that tyre wear will be more, but find it very difficult to believe that this will outweigh exhaust and brake emissions.

2. Batteries that have been degraded to the point of not being able to be used in EVs can, and are used in static energy storage - any diesel or petrol used for the comparisons is long gone.

3. IF EVs are energy intensive to produce, at least that energy use is centralised - carbon capture and waste recycling seem much more likely. The comparison I can think of is 100 small plastic water bottles holding the same amount of water, and using the same amount of plastic as a large water cooler jug. The jug is almost certain to get recycled or reused, but the odds of everyone with one of the small bottles doing the right thing is almost zero.

Trykpaa
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Post by Trykpaa » Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:14 pm

Mr_Helge wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:42 am
Insideevs has another take on that. Break-even could be as low as 25,000km (16,000 miles)

https://insideevs.com/news/458458/legac ... -debunked/
Never trust a source so openly biased as insideevs 😉

What should be Polestars motivation for manipulating numbers against EVs? I find it honourable that they actually go the that length putting numbers on the table. That some may find the truth unfavorable doesn't make it wrong.

It's without any doubt that BEV production presents some severe environmental challenges. Changing the numbers doesn't help. On the contrary, actually.

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Highanddry
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:03 am

Post by Highanddry » Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:22 pm

ZoeDave wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:41 pm
This is definitely a complex topic, and the results of any analysis tend to depend on the frame of reference used. I have a few points that might not be included in the articles listed in favour of all but the most obnoxiously large EVs:

1. Particulate emissions will definitely be lower in areas where people live and work - I've seen some arguments that tyre wear will be more, but find it very difficult to believe that this will outweigh exhaust and brake emissions.

2. Batteries that have been degraded to the point of not being able to be used in EVs can, and are used in static energy storage - any diesel or petrol used for the comparisons is long gone.

3. IF EVs are energy intensive to produce, at least that energy use is centralised - carbon capture and waste recycling seem much more likely. The comparison I can think of is 100 small plastic water bottles holding the same amount of water, and using the same amount of plastic as a large water cooler jug. The jug is almost certain to get recycled or reused, but the odds of everyone with one of the small bottles doing the right thing is almost zero.
I like the arguments you bring.
There is a lot of unknowns on the impact of particulates on people still - in terms how bad it is, but it cannot be beneficial.
How practical would it be to use a battery of a total-loss Honda e (we do not hope for that) as a static storage in the house to buffer solar for instance, has something similar been done?

Trykpaa
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:18 pm

Post by Trykpaa » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am

Trykpaa wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:14 pm
Mr_Helge wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:42 am
Insideevs has another take on that. Break-even could be as low as 25,000km (16,000 miles)

https://insideevs.com/news/458458/legac ... -debunked/
Never trust a source so openly biased as insideevs 😉

What should be Polestars motivation for manipulating numbers against EVs? I find it honourable that they actually go the that length putting numbers on the table. That some may find the truth unfavorable doesn't make it wrong.

It's without any doubt that BEV production presents some severe environmental challenges. Changing the numbers doesn't help. On the contrary, actually.
Had a thought on environmental impact of cars, especially BEVs.

For perspective, ignore raw material, purifying, material transport, parts manufacturing, parts transport and actual assembly - all what goes into this blurry lump typically debated and there very different numbers for environmental impact is presented as 'facts'.
Our Hondas are from Japan, but same applies to Tesla, Polestar.. They have been on a ship for about 30days to get here. A typical RoRo will carry 4000vehicles and consume 200t fuel/day (ball park) Total 6000t fuel. 6000t/4000 cars = about 1600liter or equivalent to about 30.000km in my Civic (from Swindon).

Business cases always show what author wants to promote. I find Polestars numbers much more reasonable than InsideEVs.

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